Why not “Rhuthun”?
Preface: Microsoft Word spellchecker recognises Caernarfon and Dolgellau, plus both Conwy and Conway, but suggests Ruthann for Rhuthun. Streetmap and Google Local recognise Rhuthun but Multimap doesn’t.
Why is it that Rhuthun is so often referred to as “Ruthin”? Why not adopt one spelling only – just Rhuthun? Wouldn’t it make life easier?After all, no one spells Dolgellau, as once was the fashion, as “Dolgethley” or “Dolgelley” (there was until recently a shop sign referring to this now-defunct anglicised version). No one types “Conway”, and “Caernarvon” & “Carnarvon” have both faded off the map.
And, Rhuthun isn’t like Yr Wyddgrug/Mold or Llanelwy/St Asaph, where one version is so different to the other.
So, why not say cheerio to “Ruthin”? This is in no way anti the English language. It's not designed to be controversial. It just reflects the culture and history of the town.
One reason for the ascendancy of Ruthin rather than Rhuthun is that monoglot English people cannot pronounce Rhuthun so well, so they perceive. But many from outside the area struggle with “Ruthin”, enunciating it as Ruth-the-girl’s-name followed by Inn; or ruth pronounced as is cut, son or rough.
Since Rhuthun and Ruthin are actually pronounced the same (save for the aspirate “Rh”), should the town council develop, campaign for and support a Rhuthun-only policy? That way, slowly, Rhuthun rather than Ruthin would become the default spelling of our town and, like Conwy and Caernarfon, it will take exclusive hold.
Should, then, we use Rhuthun in all circumstances and situations where once we may have used Ruthin? Whether we speak Welsh, English or both, it’s our heritage and culture.


15 Comments:
I am English and to be honest I think everywhere should have one name. Tough if us English cannot say the word. Rhuthun all the way.
I agree 100%
This will sound a little pedantic, and with the propesed work ar the Craft Centre, this may well change - but the centre's logo is a big 'R'. This is a monolingual logo as the Welsh spealling of the town begins with the letter 'Rh'
Just out of interest, how is the English version of Rhuthun - Ruthin - properly pronounced? Is it "Rith-in" or "Ruth-in"? In all my time (26 years) of hearing people pronounce it I've only ever heard two people pronounce it as "Ruth-in" (where the "Ruth" rhymes with "tough", not "tooth"). Everyone else I know - the majority of which are English-only speakers - pronounce it as "Rith-in". Welsh speakers and learners, of course, pronounce it as "Rhith-in".
I agree that Rhuthun should be referred to by its proper name only. It's not about being anti-English language because even the most monoglot English speakers can understand Rhuthun.
What a wonderful idea. You should start a campaign
Thank you for all who’ve posted comments, for the support for “Rhuthun”, whatever your linguistic background.
Wynne, I guess you are right in that you don’t often hear “R-ugh-th-inn” locally, aside from tourists. Where you do hear it is in Cheshire, Liverpool, Wirral and so on. Such people in these places either like visiting the town and feel it’s special to them; or have heard of Rhuthun, could vaguely locate it on that map in their minds eye and have probably been through it on the way to the Snowdonia coast. Both have no real clue how to pronounce it. Spelling it “Rhuthun” might actually lead to proper pronunciation – unless that means it comes out as r-ugh-th-ugh-n, if you see what I mean.
Start a campaign? Perhaps those with blogs can spread the word!
Rhys, absolutely right about the (large, multicoloured) ® symbols dotted about the windows of Canolfan Grefft Rhuthun Craft Centre. Suspect it’s aimed at English visitors who would otherwise find Rh rather odd and inexplicable! Unless it was accompanied by the full Welsh spelling, of course.
Your use of Rhuthun / Ruthin as the website title reminds me of the BBC’s Irish presenter Gerry Anderson and his portrayal of London/Derry as “stroke city”, though in Anderson’s case this reflected nationalist/unionist politics rather than linguistic reasons.
Anderson’s “stroke city” was a compromise. Perhaps Rhuthun / Ruthin needs such a middle course, too?
To clarify, the spelling of the town needs the midlle course as Wales's own "stroke city", not your website!
It is a common misapprehension that older spellings of Welsh place names, like "Ruthin", are in some sense English. Some are, but many simply reflect authentic Welsh spellings from the period before the modern orthography was introduced. For example Llywelyn the Great's charter for "Aberconwy" Abbey uses the spellings -conwy, -conway and -conwey. It seems a shame to lose touch with our real history for the sake of pedantic, modern standardisation. The more spellings of Ruthin the better!!
No objection to "Rhuthun" if we can drop the atrocity of "Wrecsam" and the lunatics stop trying to bastardise the lovely "Beaumaris" as "Biwmaris"
I have no problem with using the proper Welsh names in cases like Rhuthun and I pronounce it Rith-in or Rhith-in. I do find it very amusing when there is an attempt to make an obviously non-Welsh name Welsh pheonetically like the examples given of Wrecsam and Biwmaris. It just makes the Welsh look silly.
I do not see a problem either way. At the bottom of this debate there seems to lurk an unspoken premise that somehow English is contaminating Welsh. I don't see this at all.Language evolves. If it did not, it might not be necessary to translate the Canterbury Tales, for instance. While it is good to uphold our culture, my only objection is the cost of the infrastructure it takes to make sure we don't offend anyone locally by having two sets of signs that confuse more tourists than not.
By the way, nice layout
Yes, language should evolve, and that's a good thing. And evolution of language is a natural process, organic, from the roots up. Not a change from the outside: un-natural, inorganic, brought about by the influx of incommers.
That is NOT a natural evolution but a CHANGE, a foreign development. And that change can be only for the bad; for it only has one outcome: one language, one culture ... and a Pepsicola-American-Macdonald's-Big-is-beuatiful-kill-all culture at that.
Let's hold on to the little goodness that's left in this world.
I've never quite understood why 'Rhuthun' is described as being derived from Rhuth (Rhudd) 'red' and thun (din)(dinas) 'fort'. Welsh adjectives always follow the noun, so Dinrhudd would be more natural and in keeping historically with the town's name.
Unfortunately, Dinrhudd's modern connotation would translate into English as 'Slack arsed'- which is not to be recommended!
Adjective before nowns are abundant in Welsh place-names, Mr Invisible, as well as before common nouns: Gwyn-dy, Hen-gwrt, Sych-nant, Llwyd-iarth, cor-gi, mor-fran, marw-dy, rhudd-ugl (raddish) etc.
But let's get back on course. I'm all for changing the English spelling of this old market town to: Rhuthun.
The non-Welsh speakers I know are quite able to get their tongue round anything. Does the council have ears on the ground? It's time for a change.
Everyone seems to have ignored my point that "Ruthin" is not (necessarily) an English (mis-)spelling, and might be worthy, not just of toleration, but of deliberate preservation.
P.S. The Canterbury Tales don't need to be translated as Zom appears to think - they are perfectly readable by anyone who knows Modern English and is prepared to master a few simple details.
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